Thursday, November 17, 2005

One Final Note On Google Print

Holly Lisle's problems seem to have come to a satisfactory end: Google finally agreed to take her books offline.

But I am finding that I need to explain my position on Google Print over and over again to people emailing me. I posted a while back elaborating on one of the main moral argument against it, but there are good legal reasons as well for standing against Google Print.

My reasons, in short, are these:

1. The Online Content
Google stores the entire books in its database, and allows people to see any 20% of it at a time before it supposedly stops you (apparently, Holly's experience was different... she was able to see over 100 pages of one of her books - about 35%). This is way beyond the "fair use" clause. Enormous revenue is being generated from the Print project (why else would Google do it?), and this revenue comes directly from the content, for which the creators of that content are not compensated. The only answer they seem to have is that "its beneficial to writers and publishers", but shouldn't the decision then be left to the writers and publishers?

2. The Permissions Policy
Google scans entire libraries of books - with the permission of the library. It scans other books with the permission of the publishers. (Supposedly. Holly says that at least two of her publishers had no idea Google was putting their books online. But never mind even that.) The point is: neither of these two entities is the copyright owner of the books; only the author is. So why is Google "asking permission" from the wrong people, people who have nothing to do with the book after it is published? Ignorance of the law is no defence - and of course Google isn't really ignorant. Just big and greedy and well-protected by corporate insulation.

3. The Games They Play
What stinks is that when Holly Lisle wrote to tell Google to take her books off their search, she was told that no, her books were there with the permission of the publishers. Leave aside that this wasn't even true about two of the publishing houses. When the copyright owner tells Google to take the books out, Google should take the frickin books out. No questions asked. But to Google, "opt out" seems to mean "tell us you want to opt out, and we’ll decide whether or not we can get someone bigger than you to tell us we don’t have to." Why play ring-around-the-rosy? Only because they know that individual authors don't stand a chance against the Google corporate machine.

The only way that Google Print can legally work is when they purchase reprint rights for all the works that they are putting online. (Why reprint rights? Why not just buy a copy of the book? Because they are using the book such that it can be read by millions of people simultaneously. That's the definition of 'publication'. To republish Holly's books, they should purchase reprint rights.)

A niggly detail, though: Amit says he can't see results when he searches for Holly Lisle's books, while I can. Can people tell me if they can find her books on Google Print? This is really weird.

5 comments:

  1. Regular google search doesn't bring the books up, so maybe he isn't looking in the right place. books.google.com does have pages from her books. Not all that many as she says, though. And, not really good. :) Is she like a teenage fantasy story writer or something?

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  2. She's a fantasy writer in her 40's. I don't like her books much - mostly because I don't read fantasy, but also because I don't think she's a great writer. (I feel guilty saying that.. I've been spewing out much worse prose for NaNoWriMo.) Talyn is good, however, if you want to try it. There is still some head-hopping in it, which I detest, but overall it's pretty good.

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  3. Oh, I meant, teenage fiction when I said that.. you know, like, is that her target audience, type thing.. but anyway, I don't read fantasy either, so I had no clue if her books were good in general (for people who read 'em), hence my wonderment. :) Well, don't feel guilty calling her a bad writer, she probably is! I don't write, so I can pass guilt-less judgements, more so coz shes not even in my genre ;)

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  4. Few comments:

    1. The Online Content
    Google stores the entire books in its database, and allows people to see any 20% of it at a time before it supposedly stops you (apparently, Holly's experience was different... she was able to see over 100 pages of one of her books - about 35%). This is way beyond the "fair use" clause.


    Before books they crawled the entire web, and if you notice, almost 90% of it is still copyrighted by other people. So if its to be illegal for books, it will have to be illegal for any kind of web search and there are hundreads of them. Also it will make proxies illegal. So if you are think you have strength in this point you should not be attacking Google, you should be attacking Search Engines and few other internet technologies, unless if you for some reason think book copyright is holier than webpage copyright for some reason. Google is not fighting for google print, google is fighting for its very survival here, they lose this case, and the next thing you know, millions of webapage owners sue them too!

    [Please also read http://www.lessig.org/blog/archives/003202.shtml in support of my arguments.]

    Legally Google may be wrong by going beyond the fair use and copying the whole thing, but if they are to be deemed criminal, I would to, because I regularly quote nearly complete blog by other people in blog, are you really suggesting we should stick to technical interpretation of all law or try to honour their basic intent?

    You also say: But never mind even that.) The point is: neither of these two entities is the copyright owner of the books; only the author is. . Are you sure about the publisher bit, that they have no right to allow google to index them? I am not sure if that is true.

    And
    3. The Games They Play
    What stinks is that when Holly Lisle wrote to tell Google to take her books off their search, she was told that no, her books were there with the permission of the publishers.


    You are trying build a case in which Google Print is evil thing, and tho I see your point, there might be more at stakes than just what you are thinking about, which is the very basic nature of internet the way it is, as I discussed above. What you said here might just be a case of human error somewhere, or some technical glitch, consider the wisdom of "do not attribute to malice that can be explained by stupidy" before relentlessly attacking Google.

    Also read http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.11/posts.html?pg=8 to know why people have sympathy with Google on this issue.

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  5. Before books [Google] crawled the entire web, and if you notice, almost 90% of it is still copyrighted by other people. So if its to be illegal for books, it will have to be illegal for any kind of web search and there are hundreads of them. Also it will make proxies illegal.
    Indexing and making links to copyrighted web pages is certainly not illegal: the book parallel to that would be indexing titles of books and posting links to places where they can be read/bought. If Google was reprinting the entire content of copyrighted websites on their own site, that would have to be illegal. And I am not arguing that Google shouldn't scan books into their database - they can do what they want with books they own (which means proxies/caches are OK). It'd how they use that database that is the problem.

    Are you sure about the publisher bit, that they have no right to allow google to index them? I am not sure if that is true.

    Yes. Publishers can give Google permission to list titles of books, they can put out advertisements, but they have NO control over the content of the books. So indexing permission - when it means indexing titles - can be given by publishers. Not so for content.

    Thanks for your links, I'm off to read the stuff.

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